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Voyd



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PostSubject: Edumacation   Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:01 am

Which country in the world has the best education system? Probably a good idea to base it off an already working model.
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:01 am

Applying an industrial model of education to a tiny population is not necessary. And let's not forget all the pedophiles on 4chan. Or rather, a handful of pedophiles and a bunch of kids trying to be edgy.

Education begins at birth. By the time a child is seven or eight, their brain has finished developing the synaptic connections and analytical ability that they will have for the rest of their lives. This also happens to be the time when children are entering school for the first time. This is a pretty glaring flaw.

I believe the optimal education system is NOT based on the obsolete Prussian model which is used around the world. I believe optimally every child would be taught an East Asian language and English before 3, a musical instrument and basic maths by 5, and how to read and do multiplication and division by 7.

Since chinks don't seem more intelligent than Japs, I don't think there's any difference between the two languages. Learning to read and write in either language requires a massive amount of analytical ability to be developed, and learning two very different languages doubles up on that. Music and maths are the third and fourth languages. Teach the children these things, and give them insatiable curiosity, and you need not teach them anything else at all. Give them some OLPC tablets and they'll be outthinking you by 15 and more educated than you by early adulthood.

Other than codifying that into an education system and figuring out how to apply it uniformly from birth onwards is the only consideration we need make. Beyond that, we'd probably hinder their educations. Children want to learn when they're young; the institution of school typically beats that out of them.


Last edited by Diogenes on Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yuntay



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:24 am

I must agree with Diogenes. No current education system is perfect, all they do is hinder the child's development. Who needs to learn algebra? What's the point of learning the reaction of alkali metals? Instead of teaching children what they need to know, they try to cram in too much of the things they don't need, like algebra, and mostly ignore things like teamwork, which they will need.

What we also need to bear in mind is that if such a society is born on Pitcairn, it will be unlike other in history. We will be living on an island like the Hawaiians were for hundreds, possibly thousands of years (I haven't studied Hawaiian history so I couldn't tell you how long they've been there, but I'd say round about those numbers), but with modern technology and ideology. The children will need to be taught how to use the things we will need. How kinetic energy works, how we would get energy, economics etc.

However, I do think it's easy to get confused as to what is best and what we want. /b/tards are generally clever, misunderstood outcasts with great ideas, but by their nature of being revolutionaries, not being able to agree on what is the best for something and hating things for the sake of it, it will not be a simple task to work out what is best for an island community, the most remote in the world.
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Panzer
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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:36 pm

Quote :
Who needs to learn algebra? What's the point of learning the reaction of alkali metals? Instead of teaching children what they need to know, they try to cram in too much of the things they don't need, like algebra, and mostly ignore things like teamwork, which they will need.

While the rest of your post is decent, that's nonsense.
Mathematical skills require years of nurturing for one to become proficient enough at them that one can obtain a job in many technical fields. You can't have a society entirely based on people that know teamwork and nothing else.
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:08 am

Panzer wrote:
Quote :
Who needs to learn algebra? What's the point of learning the reaction of alkali metals? Instead of teaching children what they need to know, they try to cram in too much of the things they don't need, like algebra, and mostly ignore things like teamwork, which they will need.

While the rest of your post is decent, that's nonsense.
Mathematical skills require years of nurturing for one to become proficient enough at them that one can obtain a job in many technical fields. You can't have a society entirely based on people that know teamwork and nothing else.

Agreed. I was actually advocating mathematical literacy as one of four languages. English, Weeaboo, Music, and Maths in order to create powerful minds that would be able to learn anything else with ease.

Another note: Large working memories that can do advanced math mentally, can write perfect music in one's head before committing it to paper, and so on are what is commonly considered advanced intelligence. I don't suppose anyone has any ideas on how to nurture a working memory? I can't even keep three numbers in my head simultaneously, personally. I'd like my children to be a bit better at that.
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Yuntay



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:48 pm

Panzer wrote:
Quote :
Who needs to learn algebra? What's the point of learning the reaction of alkali metals? Instead of teaching children what they need to know, they try to cram in too much of the things they don't need, like algebra, and mostly ignore things like teamwork, which they will need.

While the rest of your post is decent, that's nonsense.
Mathematical skills require years of nurturing for one to become proficient enough at them that one can obtain a job in many technical fields. You can't have a society entirely based on people that know teamwork and nothing else.

You've twisted my words. I never said anything about "know teamwork and nothing else", I said we should put more effort into teaching them teamwork and other more important things rather then advanced mathematics very rarely used outside of things like quantum physics and the like. An small island community in the middle of nowhere has no need for quantum physicists, so why bother teaching them said things? If we plan for them to go out into the world outside of our island community, then send them away to be taught in places like the US where they will need said things in advanced specialties which they are unlikely to even get into at best.

Quote :
Agreed. I was actually advocating mathematical literacy as one of four languages. English, Weeaboo, Music, and Maths in order to create powerful minds that would be able to learn anything else with ease.

By weeaboo I'm going to have to assume you mean manga and the like. How will this benefit our society?


Last edited by Yuntay on Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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traitor_dice



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:19 pm

For advancing memory, the only thing that springs to mind is (as useless as it sounds) memory games. However, these could be incorporated into the other areas, for example in music demonstrate a piece then see how accurately the student can recite it back to you, or in English use simple stories at first and eventually work up to longer pieces while testing the student's memory of details within the story. I'm not in any way qualified in education, I just know thats what helped me remember things.
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:37 pm

Yuntay wrote:

I wrote:
Agreed. I was actually advocating mathematical literacy as one of four languages. English, Weeaboo, Music, and Maths in order to create powerful minds that would be able to learn anything else with ease.

By weeaboo I'm going to have to assume you mean manga and the like. How will this benefit our society?

By weeaboo I mean learning fluent Japanese and its writing systems too at a very early age.
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Yuntay



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:22 pm

Ah, okay, but wouldn't trying to push four languages onto the child at such an early age not only ruin their childhood, but also be putting too much onto them at once? Also, wouldn't chinese be better? Seeing as they're going to be the world's most powerful nation in a decade or two, would it not be useful to know their language? I'm going to have to assume your reasoning for not suggesting chinese is that it has two versions and PRC uses the simplified version, which isn't as complicated as Japanese. Definitely something to look into though.
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:47 pm

Yuntay wrote:
Ah, okay, but wouldn't trying to push four languages onto the child at such an early age not only ruin their childhood, but also be putting too much onto them at once? Also, wouldn't chinese be better? Seeing as they're going to be the world's most powerful nation in a decade or two, would it not be useful to know their language? I'm going to have to assume your reasoning for not suggesting chinese is that it has two versions and PRC uses the simplified version, which isn't as complicated as Japanese. Definitely something to look into though.

Surely being bilingual and able to do maths and play an instrument by 7 is not too ambitious, or do you intend to have dull children? And China might be industrializing, but they're a totalitarian state and the oil and prosperity is running low. Better to give them the language of the cultural power, the Nips, rather than of the economic power, the Chinks. A language unused is a language lost, and what use will they have of Mandarin, in practice? Japan will be a cultural dynamo for decades to come, producing much media for consumption, and the Chinks are doomed to Civil War in the approaching years when things stop going so well for them. Enslaved men cannot produce great artistic works, anyway, and China is a nation of slaves.
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Yuntay



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:01 pm

Diogenes wrote:
Yuntay wrote:
Ah, okay, but wouldn't trying to push four languages onto the child at such an early age not only ruin their childhood, but also be putting too much onto them at once? Also, wouldn't chinese be better? Seeing as they're going to be the world's most powerful nation in a decade or two, would it not be useful to know their language? I'm going to have to assume your reasoning for not suggesting chinese is that it has two versions and PRC uses the simplified version, which isn't as complicated as Japanese. Definitely something to look into though.

Surely being bilingual and able to do maths and play an instrument by 7 is not too ambitious, or do you intend to have dull children? And China might be industrializing, but they're a totalitarian state and the oil and prosperity is running low. Better to give them the language of the cultural power, the Nips, rather than of the economic power, the Chinks. A language unused is a language lost, and what use will they have of Mandarin, in practice? Japan will be a cultural dynamo for decades to come, producing much media for consumption, and the Chinks are doomed to Civil War in the approaching years when things stop going so well for them. Enslaved men cannot produce great artistic works, anyway, and China is a nation of slaves.

I don't want them to be dull, the point I'm making is that neither you nor I, nor anyone on these forums were bilingual nor could play a musical instrument well (and I don't mean the easy stuff like the flute) by the age they were seven, nor could most of the world. How will we be able to teach them these things when we ourselves cannot do them, nor have we any idea how they would be taught, let alone at such a young age. We can dream now, but in reality how are we going to achieve the things we aim to?

Also, china may take a long walk off a short cliff with its current system, but with such a huge economy and half the world's finances at its fingertips (the US alone owes them over $900,000,000) and being currently on the hunt for new oil against much of south-east asia, it's likely to only get better for the chinese. They may collapse, but I don't believe it's likely to happen in either out nor our children's lifetimes. In the case of china vs. japan, I can only really say one thing on the subject: Japan has already had a financial meltdown (no pun intended) in the early 1990 with its current social workings in place at the time, however china has yet to have such problems under communist rule since 1949 (there have been minor flusters, but nothing major).
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:52 pm

English is a freebie; math is too. Teaching music has been a classic part of education for centuries and we can find people to teach that without difficulty. And bilingual children are not a rarity; as you say it is our knowledge that is lacking. But not universally. There are many anons who can decipher the moon runes.

I see nothing difficult about the logistics nor the education itself. Cooperation makes up for a variation in the teachers.

Whatever your opinions on China, I trust you aren't saying China is going to begin a great upwelling of cultural output for our children to consume. They are slaves under the boot of their fascist, not communist, government. Slaves do not produce art.
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Yuntay



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:51 pm

Diogenes wrote:
English is a freebie; math is too. Teaching music has been a classic part of education for centuries and we can find people to teach that without difficulty. And bilingual children are not a rarity; as you say it is our knowledge that is lacking. But not universally. There are many anons who can decipher the moon runes.

I see nothing difficult about the logistics nor the education itself. Cooperation makes up for a variation in the teachers.

Whatever your opinions on China, I trust you aren't saying China is going to begin a great upwelling of cultural output for our children to consume. They are slaves under the boot of their fascist, not communist, government. Slaves do not produce art.

But what is the point of learning a second language at such a young age? To increase intellect? Many european countries have their schools teach children multiple languages at a young age, yet it doesn't increase their intellect, so why will teaching ours music and Japanese increase theirs? It's highly unlikely it will, and they will have had their education wasted on a language they will most likely never need as Japan is being pushed aside by its more influencing neighbors and music, and this is coming from someone who took music at school, which is useless and gave me nothing in life but a GCSE which is useless at the moment.

Even if they were to increase our children's intelligence, what difference would that make? As far as I'm concerned the point of colonizing Pitcairn and making it our own little country is that we're away from the corruption of the world in isolation living the dream so to speak, and with a community that has no need for higher educated people, what's the point of making them smarter then anyone else in the world? Why be highly intelligent when being mediocre still gets the job done? It's a waste of resources and if your idea doesn't work it'll have all been for nothing. I really don't see us benefiting from this, nor the children who would be our test subjects.
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Edumacation   Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:25 pm

I've already explained my reasoning. If you didn't get it the first time there's no sense in me explaining it again. I don't know of any nation on Earth that takes the courses of action I have proposed here, but if you wish to discard my proposal out of hand, that's your own business. Only through cooperation could we achieve any education system. And cooperation doesn't appear to be likely.

You are arguing against language, music, even math. Arguing for mediocrity without satire or sarcasm. I can scarcely believe it and I have zero interest with compromising with such dangerous and willful ignorance. For what purpose you take this line of so-called reasoning, I don't know. You'd rather teach them teamwork 'and other things.' Maybe you'll say to these children of fewer than seven years: "everybody buddy up!" Or maybe you'll put them into a hierarchy of commanders and minions. Or perhaps you have no reading comprehension and no vision and no willingness to accept an axiom even for the short duration that it takes to read an entire argument all the way through. Whatever the case, it seems everyone is intellectually bankrupt and absent of any ability to formulate their own independent ideas free from the prejudices and superstitions of the bygone 20th century.
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