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 Laws of the island

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Xarrau
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Join date: 2011-06-15
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostSubject: Laws of the island   Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:25 pm

So far we've got:

Age of consent is 13.

Religion is to be kept personal.

Marijuana is legalized.

This will be added to as law are discussed Very Happy
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Voyd



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:01 am

Isn't 13 a little too young, kids that age don't fully understand sex. Plus getting knocked up at that age would really interfere with schooling...
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:05 pm

Voyd wrote:
Isn't 13 a little too young, kids that age don't fully understand sex. Plus getting knocked up at that age would really interfere with schooling...

Historically, 13 has been the age at which children have been considered responsible for themselves, including for making their own decisions about sex. This issue of education is a perennial one, it seems, so I guess I'll post something about that. The short answer is that education exists as a socialized daycare that teaches children nothing. Plus, birth control methods and abortion.
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Yuntay



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:08 am

I agree weed should be legal, but you may only use it in your own home (not just land, your actual building(s)). I live next to the local druggie park and it's bad enough having that stench wafting over the garden, plus it makes me ill. I don't think religion being allowed at all is a good thing, even if you make it so they have to keep it to themselves. They won't, no religion in history has, and nothing has ever stopped them, they WILL spread it and eventually take over the island.

Also, on the subject of the legal age for sex, I'd probably say 16. Here in the UK we stop learning about sex in school at 16 (when we leave), and that's the legal age. Having it at 13 will cause all kinds of problems: kids getting pregnant, missing time from education to look after said child, lured into sex, etc. It just won't work.

Few ideas of my own:

-Being gay and gay marriage legal.
-Murderers, thieves, general nuisances to society will be put on a log raft and sent out to sea with basic supplies (they're just weighing us down and no country will take them if they've committed such crimes).
-Cigarettes, weed and other smoked drugs can only be smoked in ones own building(s) to prevent the harmful fumes from wafting over to others.
-Guns are legal. Pistols (I'm not too savvy with gun terms but I think it's semi-automatic that are most pistols) may be carried concealed in public for self-defense purposes. Most other guns are allowed (except things like RPGs and machine guns) are allowed to be used on private property (not at night since people want to sleep) or on a public gun range we could set up. Obviously carrying said non-pistols to the range, other people's properties to shoot with them, etc. (etc. to be later defined) is allowed.
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:35 pm

That raft idea is pretty horrible. First off, it's virtually a death sentence and they'd hypothetically just land that raft back on the island ASAP as there is no punishment greater than death. I think there are three tiers of justice. Compensation, banishment, and death. Death has to be an option, albeit an extreme one for murder and torture and rape, and I have suggested one live round and several blanks distributed to a firing squad as the means to do that if the case arose.

For most offenses that arise, compensation will be the normal method. If someone exceeds what compensation can rectify, or they are a continual nuisance, they should be banished. For murder, the penalty can be no less than death.
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Yuntay



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:40 pm

I'll agree the raft idea is pretty extreme, but what do we want to create here? A Utopian society, or a /b/tard society? Now of course I meant the raft thing to be for extreme punishment instead of the death penalty. What if they're innocent and we got it wrong? They'll have died for nothing and the real culprit is still at large. Sending them out to sea with basic supplies (food, water, compass etc. to get them to land), and a pistol with one shot in case they're feeling suicidal. For all other things we'd just lock them up and have some goods of theirs taken from them as compensation to the person they were stolen from. Murder is instant 'rafting', repeated theft will be rafting also, etc.

Rules are different from country to country because that country needs different laws. A country full of alcoholics needs a minimum alcohol price to keep them from buying it en mass, getting drunk and committing crimes, whereas a country where alcoholism isn't a problem doesn't need these laws. It's easy for both of us to give our opinions of what we think the laws should be, but in the end we won't know what's best until we're there.
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:31 am

>What if they're innocent and they got it wrong?

That's what trials are for. And dying a slow horrible death on the open seas is worse than a bullet in the back of the head. Assuming the Pitcairns as the starting point, there is no chance of them making it anywhere else. The raft idea serves absolutely no point. We will have boats. They will be dumped off at Tahiti or Easter Island if they need be banished. And if the need for justice is greater, then we'll drop their corpse in the ocean with holes drilled through his lungs and let him sink to the bottom to be carrion for sharks.
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Yuntay



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:59 am

So you're saying there's no possible way we could get it wrong? That countries like america and china NEVER execute the wrong person? That is why most countries don't use it, because there's too much risk involved. I also mentioned earlier that said person on the raft would have enough supplies to get to land and a gun with one bullet to take the coward's way out if they cannot make it, rather then dying slowly. Chile and Tahiti will never accept those who we choose to banish, no country that owns a pacific island or an island-nation will do so, and putting them on an un-owned or deserted island will certainly kill them.

Again, I must ask, do we want a utopian nation or a /b/tard nation? Do we want to be locking people up until they die, or killing them to save space? I see no reason why 'rafting', as I shall use as its naming for now, cannot happen, yet execution can. One is certain death, one is survivable but only with hard work which may change the person (a SAW game of sorts?) Bearing in mind they would be given all they need to survive, but it would be up to them to do it, with them being shot if they tried to return at any point after they've been cast off.
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Ghazghku
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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:08 am

I totally disagree with "Religion is to be kept personal"

We should actually prohibit religion
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Headrush
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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:18 am

Prohibit religion? That's one of the worst ideas ever. Prohibition of violence based on religious beliefs, sure. Prohibition of being a general asshole about your religion, maybe. But flat-out prohibition of religion? At that point you're telling your citizens what to believe and how to think. Every single person alive holds beliefs for which they have no proof. That is to say that regardless of what you call it, you yourself have beliefs that could technically be classified as religion.

tl;dr: leave religion where it belongs, in the minds of its followers. Don't get it all mixed up in legislation. That would be a pointless expense for any government.
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:30 am

Headrush wrote:
Prohibit religion? That's one of the worst ideas ever. Prohibition of violence based on religious beliefs, sure. Prohibition of being a general asshole about your religion, maybe. But flat-out prohibition of religion? At that point you're telling your citizens what to believe and how to think. Every single person alive holds beliefs for which they have no proof. That is to say that regardless of what you call it, you yourself have beliefs that could technically be classified as religion.

tl;dr: leave religion where it belongs, in the minds of its followers. Don't get it all mixed up in legislation. That would be a pointless expense for any government.

Agreed. We're all atheist and agnostic fags anyway. The goal should be education to create a scientifically literate populous which will naturally be highly atheistic. We shall not be thought police. Free expression is paramount.
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traitor_
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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:52 am

The death penalty is generally a bad idea. Aside from the moral issues, theres some technical aspects to consider. If we start killing people, what do we do with the corpses? We have somewhat limited land in which to bury them, and it would be a drain of resources to send them to sea. Even a basic raft would use wood that for an island nation is quite a valuable resource and to send a crewed vessel out to sea to dispose of them is still a drain on time and resources, which are things we want to avoid, at least in the beginning. If we absolutely MUST kill people, burning is probably our most efficient method of corpse disposal. It may still use wood, but not as much as a raft might.

When thinking up our legislation, it is important to consider the practical aspects of it.
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Yuntay



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:14 am

Headrush wrote:
Prohibit religion? That's one of the worst ideas ever. Prohibition of violence based on religious beliefs, sure. Prohibition of being a general asshole about your religion, maybe. But flat-out prohibition of religion? At that point you're telling your citizens what to believe and how to think. Every single person alive holds beliefs for which they have no proof. That is to say that regardless of what you call it, you yourself have beliefs that could technically be classified as religion.

tl;dr: leave religion where it belongs, in the minds of its followers. Don't get it all mixed up in legislation. That would be a pointless expense for any government.

I partially agree with this. Though one of my earlier posts seems to show otherwise, I do think that people should be allowed to be religious, and it's nearly impossible to tell if they are if they're not open about it (for all we know, the pope could be atheist, there's just no way of telling). My only problem is that they don't seem to know when to stop - 'today I'll keep it to myself, tomorrow everyone's going to follow my religion' - this is the attitude with most religions, and they feel the need to force it upon everyone else. If religions didn't do this, I'd have no problem with people having religious beliefs on the island, my only problem is that just as mass immigration is doing to white countries, there's a slippery slope:

"We'll let them have their religion, no problem."
"Oh, they want to build a church? That's fine too."
"They're preaching their messages now? Well alright, I suppose that's okay..."
"Oh, everyone but me now follows their religion. Well, that's their choice I suppose."
"They're changing the laws because their religion doesn't like it? Now wait just a second!..."

As you can see, it becomes more and more difficult to stop it from happening once it's started. I'm not against religion, I'm against them spreading it, and if they don't do it on the island in our generation, or maybe even our children's generation, what's to stop them in our grandchildren's generation? I don't want our decedents to be swamped with religion, and teaching them science over religion may not be enough.

If anyone has any other ideas of how to stop a religious take-over on the island, let me know, I'm open to suggestions.


Last edited by Yuntay on Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Diogenes



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:22 am

traitor_ wrote:
The death penalty is generally a bad idea. Aside from the moral issues, there are some technical aspects to consider. If we start killing people, what do we do with the corpses? We have somewhat limited land in which to bury them, and it would be a drain of resources to send them to sea. Even a basic raft would use wood that for an island nation is quite a valuable resource and to send a crewed vessel out to sea to dispose of them is still a drain on time and resources, which are things we want to avoid, at least in the beginning. If we absolutely MUST kill people, burning is probably our most efficient method of corpse disposal. It may still use wood, but not as much as a raft might.

When thinking up our legislation, it is important to consider the practical aspects of it.

We could easily bury millions of people on an island the size of Henderson, but personally I don't believe in burial. I believe cremation is the best, and I would suggest that in our case bodies be committed to the sea with holes in their lungs so they sink and don't wash up anywhere. I don't believe we should use the lumber of the island for any purpose. And we don't have to.

I do not believe there is a moral issue with the death penalty. It has to be an option for us; it's arguable for large nations, but for a small island community it must be known that murder and torture and treason be met with capital punishment. Maybe not other crimes, but certainly those three.

The only justice is an eye for an eye. If you kill me by accident I still want you to die. I'm a better man and my life was worth far more than yours. Everyone's life is priceless to their own self. Whether or not a criminal can be reformed is irrelevant, the price must be paid for what he broke. If he killed me, the only price he can pay is with his own life, and it should be paid.

Tell me if you think justice is served when the 'ring leaders' of genocide are jailed for life for killing hundreds of thousands. It's an abortion. Every hand that wielded a machete should be put to death if justice is to be done. Anything else is plainly absurd.
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traitor_dice



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PostSubject: Re: Laws of the island   Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:55 am

Suppose said person who accidentally kills you also happens to be say, a doctor, capable of saving lives. does that mean because for whatever reason, or however, he killed you, all that potential should be just thrown away?

I'm all for justice and paying an equal price for your crime, but the simple fact is that its not always a good idea. And as for saying whether or not the criminal can be reformed is irrelevant, that's simply the same as telling the other side in an argument "your solution/option/opinion is irrelevant" because the whole point of not killing criminals is the idea that they may reform. hell, even if they don't reform they can still be of use as penal workers. So, "we should kill murderers/rapists etc" somehow magically renders alternatives completely irrelevant?

Rather than thinking of the best way to get even with them, I'd be thinking of the best way for them to be useful. Even a chained man is (usually) more helpful than a dead one.

However, the subject of a death penalty is perhaps not the best one to get bogged down on, since people have been debating it for years and there's still no unanimous decision, so maybe we should just agree to disagree?
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